pine, but it had side effects and is no longer covered by my HMO anyway. I'm bipolar btw. The only drugs I am currently on are Gabapentin and Clonazepam. I HAVE been prescribed Andogel however.Thanks for any help -
Konfuzed
Antidepressants vs. Hormonal Drive
Antidepressants vs. Hormonal Drive
I just lost an entire post and don't wish to re-write the whole thing. My basic question is what drugs can I take that are non-narcotic and won't interfere with my libido? I need to relax and feel better. If you ask I will try to recount to the best of my ability the myriad of drugs I have already been prescribed. I would say the best so far was Mirtaza pine, but it had side effects and is no longer covered by my HMO anyway. I'm bipolar btw. The only drugs I am currently on are Gabapentin and Clonazepam. I HAVE been prescribed Andogel however.
Thanks for any help -
Konfuzed
pine, but it had side effects and is no longer covered by my HMO anyway. I'm bipolar btw. The only drugs I am currently on are Gabapentin and Clonazepam. I HAVE been prescribed Andogel however.Thanks for any help -
Konfuzed
God can't help you if you aren't willing to help yourself. I've spent a lifetime in pursuit of happiness and I won't quit until I either reach the promised land or perish first. And it won't be at my own hand. This I vow!
-
ViewsAskew
- Moderator
- Posts: 16744
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
- Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Confused,
I have a lot of questions (sorry!)
I take it that you are NOT on any drug for bipolar right now - yes? Many drugs that increase seratonin or prevent reuptake are known for worsening RLS.
How frequent is your RLS and how long do you have it before you go to bed?
Does the RLS keep you from sleeping?
Do you have pain with the RLS?
Per the RLS drugs, it seems they affect us differently regarding our sex drives. For example, several people here have said that Mirapex helped or increased theirs. Me? It didn't really decrease it but it did make it really, really hard for me to have an orgasm. I hated that side effect and was so relieved when I stopped it and all was back to normal. But, that's not the experience of many others.
Thought I wish it weren't true, with the RLS drugs, what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another - or in the same way.
Most of the RLS drugs are not like SSRIs - they don't have the notoriety for reducing sex drive or increasing food intake.
I have a lot of questions (sorry!)
I take it that you are NOT on any drug for bipolar right now - yes? Many drugs that increase seratonin or prevent reuptake are known for worsening RLS.
How frequent is your RLS and how long do you have it before you go to bed?
Does the RLS keep you from sleeping?
Do you have pain with the RLS?
Per the RLS drugs, it seems they affect us differently regarding our sex drives. For example, several people here have said that Mirapex helped or increased theirs. Me? It didn't really decrease it but it did make it really, really hard for me to have an orgasm. I hated that side effect and was so relieved when I stopped it and all was back to normal. But, that's not the experience of many others.
Thought I wish it weren't true, with the RLS drugs, what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another - or in the same way.
Most of the RLS drugs are not like SSRIs - they don't have the notoriety for reducing sex drive or increasing food intake.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Thanks for the response. No, right now I'm not taking any antidepressants. Just the Clonazepam, Gabapentin and Hydrocodone. Don't ask how I got the last. And I am savvy enough to hold it to 750 mg's a day no matter how anxious I get. So it's 1,800 mg's of Gabapentin, 3 mg's of Clonazepam & the 750 of Hydrocodone. I had a very personal tragedy several years back that pushed my depression over the edge and was finally diagnosed as bipolar after nine years of therapy. My trust in doctors is not the best right now. But I have received several confirmations of my condition since then so I suppose it is true no matter how much I wish it not to be.
When I enter a doctor's office for any ailment I am immediately redflagged as a nutjob because I'm bipolar. Arthritis? Psychlogical. I want an MRI. Conclusion? Cortisone injections and the advice that eventually I'll have to have joint replacement surgery. Skin problems? Neurodermatitis. Really? I want to see a dermatologist. It's Rosacia. Take these antibiotics. Now I have changed health care groups and gotten a new psychiatrist so we're starting from scratch. I was first told that my lack of libido was caused by the meds, then later the depression. I didn't take their word for that either and made an appointment to see an endochronoligist who took blood samples and determined that my testosterone count was at 344. Normally it should ride between 400 to 800. Of course that decreases with age and so maybe the norm for a middle-aged man is between 400 to 600. Still I slipped under the radar. To make sure he ran a second test as homonal levels are cyclical. That time it came back at 446. If that's my highwater mark it's still pretty low. But not low enough for a transdermal patch. So we see another misdiagnosis. That's where the Androgel comes in.
The RLS would last maybe two hours before I would pass out from exhaustion. And it was a nightly occurence. It subsided with Sinemet. But I was overmedicated. At one time I was taking Mirtazapine, Depakote, Atarax, Lorazepam, Luvox, & Sinemet. That's a bit much. The perfect cocktail for me was Gabapentin, Mirtazapine, Clonazepam & Hydrocodone. I almost felt 'normal.' But there were the side effects. Constipation, frequent urination, RLS, weight gain & facial edema. I also took my psyche's word for it that it was killing my libido. That and I had a rash {Rosacia}. So I weaned myself off until I have my current formula.
I will make another appontment to see my new shrink sometime today, but what have I missed? It's been my experience that most of these guys have to be led by the hand. To the best of my recollection these are the meds I have taken at one time or another...
Elavil
Prozac
Doxipin Hydrochloride
Wellbutrin
Effexor
Paxil
Zoloft
BuSpar
Serzone
Mirtazapine
Luvox
Depakote
Gabapentin
Strattera
Lorazepam
Clonazepam
Xanax
Those are the ones I can remember right now. The most violent reactions came from the Doxipin & Zoloft. I'm not trying those again. And the Wellbutrin seems to have effected my vision. I need something that can lift my mood slightly, relax me a lot, and not interfere with the Androgel. If you have any advice I'm all ears.
Thank again
When I enter a doctor's office for any ailment I am immediately redflagged as a nutjob because I'm bipolar. Arthritis? Psychlogical. I want an MRI. Conclusion? Cortisone injections and the advice that eventually I'll have to have joint replacement surgery. Skin problems? Neurodermatitis. Really? I want to see a dermatologist. It's Rosacia. Take these antibiotics. Now I have changed health care groups and gotten a new psychiatrist so we're starting from scratch. I was first told that my lack of libido was caused by the meds, then later the depression. I didn't take their word for that either and made an appointment to see an endochronoligist who took blood samples and determined that my testosterone count was at 344. Normally it should ride between 400 to 800. Of course that decreases with age and so maybe the norm for a middle-aged man is between 400 to 600. Still I slipped under the radar. To make sure he ran a second test as homonal levels are cyclical. That time it came back at 446. If that's my highwater mark it's still pretty low. But not low enough for a transdermal patch. So we see another misdiagnosis. That's where the Androgel comes in.
The RLS would last maybe two hours before I would pass out from exhaustion. And it was a nightly occurence. It subsided with Sinemet. But I was overmedicated. At one time I was taking Mirtazapine, Depakote, Atarax, Lorazepam, Luvox, & Sinemet. That's a bit much. The perfect cocktail for me was Gabapentin, Mirtazapine, Clonazepam & Hydrocodone. I almost felt 'normal.' But there were the side effects. Constipation, frequent urination, RLS, weight gain & facial edema. I also took my psyche's word for it that it was killing my libido. That and I had a rash {Rosacia}. So I weaned myself off until I have my current formula.
I will make another appontment to see my new shrink sometime today, but what have I missed? It's been my experience that most of these guys have to be led by the hand. To the best of my recollection these are the meds I have taken at one time or another...
Elavil
Prozac
Doxipin Hydrochloride
Wellbutrin
Effexor
Paxil
Zoloft
BuSpar
Serzone
Mirtazapine
Luvox
Depakote
Gabapentin
Strattera
Lorazepam
Clonazepam
Xanax
Those are the ones I can remember right now. The most violent reactions came from the Doxipin & Zoloft. I'm not trying those again. And the Wellbutrin seems to have effected my vision. I need something that can lift my mood slightly, relax me a lot, and not interfere with the Androgel. If you have any advice I'm all ears.
Thank again
God can't help you if you aren't willing to help yourself. I've spent a lifetime in pursuit of happiness and I won't quit until I either reach the promised land or perish first. And it won't be at my own hand. This I vow!
-
ViewsAskew
- Moderator
- Posts: 16744
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:37 am
- Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
What a lot of H-E-double hockey sticks you've been though. . .It is horrible to be marginalized like you have been. I hope you find an understanding doc. My nephew has Aspergers - finding an understanding (and informed) psych has been near impossible as they only have 4 to choose from! If your situation is similar, I can only imagine how difficult it's been.
Since your RLS appears to have started AFTER other things, do you think it is secondary? That is, caused by something else? It's only important because if they really are missing a diagnosis, you might get rid of the RLS when you get the primary condition under control.
If I may ask, where is the rosacea? If it is on your face, cheeks specifically, it may not be rosacea. At least one condition, Lupus, causes a flush/rash that looks and may be mistaken for rosacea. I'm not saying this is what you have - just that some of your symptoms could be the sign of something else that they are missing. It took my friend a year to get a correct diagnosis of Lupus and my DH 10 years to get a correct diagnosis of celiac disease. As autoimmune disorders, both of them have so many symptoms that don't fit together that they are often misdiagnosed. I think I mentioned it before; please read the "sticky" post on this section. It has quite a bit of info on secondary causes of RLS. This might, if nothing else, spark something that leads to a better diagnosis. If not, no harm done.
Most of the meds you've been on are not ones that would help RLS and many would worsen it. It's possible that one of them even "started" your RLS as many people have reported getting it after taking an SSRI.
You haven't, that I've seen, tried the "new generation" DAs. Sinemet is notorious for making RLS worse over time. Mirapex and Requip tend not to with nearly as high of frequency, though they can also. They are not without side effects, though as I mentioned in my first post, many people on this board have posted that Mirapex has boosted their libido. They tend to work for 70-100 percent in the controlled studies.
Opioids are very successful at keeping RLS at bay. The research shows that when used for RLS, there is a lower (much) incidence of addition. Of course, that is in people who have not been addicted before. Some of the opioids have less of a "high" effect than others - for example, I take Methadone and for all practical purposes I can't tell I've taken it. Except, of course, that I don't have any RLS. Constipation is an issue. I've resolved mine either with a stool softener or with white kidney bean extract (they sell it for weight loss - I don't lose weight, but it keeps me quite regular).
Hope there was some nugget of help in there.
Since your RLS appears to have started AFTER other things, do you think it is secondary? That is, caused by something else? It's only important because if they really are missing a diagnosis, you might get rid of the RLS when you get the primary condition under control.
If I may ask, where is the rosacea? If it is on your face, cheeks specifically, it may not be rosacea. At least one condition, Lupus, causes a flush/rash that looks and may be mistaken for rosacea. I'm not saying this is what you have - just that some of your symptoms could be the sign of something else that they are missing. It took my friend a year to get a correct diagnosis of Lupus and my DH 10 years to get a correct diagnosis of celiac disease. As autoimmune disorders, both of them have so many symptoms that don't fit together that they are often misdiagnosed. I think I mentioned it before; please read the "sticky" post on this section. It has quite a bit of info on secondary causes of RLS. This might, if nothing else, spark something that leads to a better diagnosis. If not, no harm done.
Most of the meds you've been on are not ones that would help RLS and many would worsen it. It's possible that one of them even "started" your RLS as many people have reported getting it after taking an SSRI.
You haven't, that I've seen, tried the "new generation" DAs. Sinemet is notorious for making RLS worse over time. Mirapex and Requip tend not to with nearly as high of frequency, though they can also. They are not without side effects, though as I mentioned in my first post, many people on this board have posted that Mirapex has boosted their libido. They tend to work for 70-100 percent in the controlled studies.
Opioids are very successful at keeping RLS at bay. The research shows that when used for RLS, there is a lower (much) incidence of addition. Of course, that is in people who have not been addicted before. Some of the opioids have less of a "high" effect than others - for example, I take Methadone and for all practical purposes I can't tell I've taken it. Except, of course, that I don't have any RLS. Constipation is an issue. I've resolved mine either with a stool softener or with white kidney bean extract (they sell it for weight loss - I don't lose weight, but it keeps me quite regular).
Hope there was some nugget of help in there.
Ann - Take what you need, leave the rest
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
Managing Your RLS
Opinions presented by Discussion Board Moderators are personal in nature and do not, in any way, represent the opinion of the RLS Foundation, and are not medical advice.
The RLS went away after I stopped taking the Mirtazapine so I know what the cause was. Too bad, because that drug worked better than any of the others besides the Gabapentin. Thanks for the tip on Sinemet. It worsens the condition with time? Glad I went off.
The rash is only on my face and has the classic butterfly pattern of Rosacia. I honestly don't know what took so long there. I had mentioned the possibility to my doctors before and was given a resounding - "nah!" Now I've had three confirmations. I'm taking oral and topical antibiotics. It seems to help some but I have to change my diet and stay out of the sun. Also, I liked to take very hot showers. I often wondered why my eyes burned afterwards and then with intitial diagnosis I googled it and discovered that this was a symptom too.
I'm still trying to find an antidepressant that won't interefere with my other goals. I want to get into a relationship again and not just platonic. I can achieve erection but orgasm is out of the question. So at least one person would be happy. I'd kinda like to share in that. Selfish I know.
Thanks
The rash is only on my face and has the classic butterfly pattern of Rosacia. I honestly don't know what took so long there. I had mentioned the possibility to my doctors before and was given a resounding - "nah!" Now I've had three confirmations. I'm taking oral and topical antibiotics. It seems to help some but I have to change my diet and stay out of the sun. Also, I liked to take very hot showers. I often wondered why my eyes burned afterwards and then with intitial diagnosis I googled it and discovered that this was a symptom too.
I'm still trying to find an antidepressant that won't interefere with my other goals. I want to get into a relationship again and not just platonic. I can achieve erection but orgasm is out of the question. So at least one person would be happy. I'd kinda like to share in that. Selfish I know.
Thanks
God can't help you if you aren't willing to help yourself. I've spent a lifetime in pursuit of happiness and I won't quit until I either reach the promised land or perish first. And it won't be at my own hand. This I vow!
Just thought I'd jump in here and say that I am on intravenous testosterone twice a month, and have been for years, due to a chronically low testosterone level. It not only took care of my libido issues but I have discovered that after my shot, my legs are MUCH improved, and it lasts for days afterward. Strange! There may be a connection between testosterone and RLS? who knows. So, you may actually get an improvement in your legs after you start your T patch. The other thing I'd like to say is that narcotics are notorious for causing a libido crash and inability to reach orgasm. Hydrocodone, and narcotics like it, affect the receptors that allow transmission of pain signals along the spinal cord. As a rule, this means they also affect the transmission of pleasure. 
Thanks, but I can't use the patch because I'm slightly within the danger zone for that. It could lead to prostate cancer. I'm trying to get Androgel. Maybe someday I can grow up to be a baseball player like Barry Bonds! The Cream and the Clear? You KNOW I'm hitting the gym when I get that stuff. I stopped going a few weeks ago because I lost a pound just about every visit. I often wondered why I could tone up but never get big.
And my libido issues began long before the narcs. It was after a viral infection in the early '90's. That was the initial flare to the endochronoligist and why he wanted to run blood tests. We found a range of 344 to 446 when it probably should have been 400 to 600.
Since the cortisone shots helped my knees so much I KNOW hormones must play a major role in pain management, so I'm sure you're right there. And I'm equally certain that they effect our moods. I googled Androgel on the net and one site said it can help relax you. Two birds with one stone. I just need a good antidepressant to fill it out. I want my life back.
Thanks for your input...
And my libido issues began long before the narcs. It was after a viral infection in the early '90's. That was the initial flare to the endochronoligist and why he wanted to run blood tests. We found a range of 344 to 446 when it probably should have been 400 to 600.
Since the cortisone shots helped my knees so much I KNOW hormones must play a major role in pain management, so I'm sure you're right there. And I'm equally certain that they effect our moods. I googled Androgel on the net and one site said it can help relax you. Two birds with one stone. I just need a good antidepressant to fill it out. I want my life back.
Thanks for your input...
God can't help you if you aren't willing to help yourself. I've spent a lifetime in pursuit of happiness and I won't quit until I either reach the promised land or perish first. And it won't be at my own hand. This I vow!
Hmmm, I wonder what kind of virus you had to cause your T levels to fluctuate? Weird! Just a word of caution on Androgel- I used that for a year because I hate needles and the stuff somehow transferred onto my wife (even when I wore a tshirt to bed) and her T levels jumped! Her hormones went out of wack and she was NOT happy. Thus the shots I do now. I would definitely say I am less cranky and more relaxed with my better T levels now. Plus I don't have to hit the gym which is nice! The only 2 antidepressants that I have used in patients that have a good record of not causing as much sexual dysfunction are Serzone and Wellbutrin-both of which it looks like you were on already? Maybe the hormones will do the trick...
Not to make light of it, but she didn't grow a beard or anything did she? I asked the pharmacist when I picked it up today when the best time would be to apply it and he wasn't very helpful at all. I think I may try another pharmacy tomorrow. Just keep pluggin' away until I get the info I need. I'd imagine I can take a shower in the morning and another at night, applying the gel the first time. Maybe that's my best bet. But it did help with your mood? That's good to hear. If I could just get over this dang anxiety. Have you ever been so anxious you can't think straight? That's me 24/7. And it was also the reason we tried Strattera. Everything I know I learned by the age of 13. After that it's a blur.
God can't help you if you aren't willing to help yourself. I've spent a lifetime in pursuit of happiness and I won't quit until I either reach the promised land or perish first. And it won't be at my own hand. This I vow!
No- my wife didn't grow a beard but she did have pretty intense mood swings and for a short while, her voice dropped just a tad- which wasn't noticable to me but made my wife really upset. You want to apply androgel in the morning, after your shower- because it peaks pretty soon after you apply it and that can make you too hyper to sleep at night. That was my experience anyway. Also- you should keep your significant other away from your towels, your Tshirts and your side of the bed. But I did all those things and my wife still got some on her... which makes you wonder about doorknobs, and all sorts of surfaces that you touch. I have talked to patients, however, who have been on androgel for years and haven't had any problems with their partners getting increased T levels- so I'm not sure what the factors are? I'm sorry you're having anxiety- that can also really put a hamper on your sex life. You may find that a little testosterone helps alot of your symptoms- I'm much calmer now. Let me know how it works for you.
Just started this morning so I will keep you posted. A couple of questions however - you say that the gel made you hyper AND calmed you down? And I should be so careful as to keep any intimate partner away from my clothes and side of the bed? Would that be even if I were to apply it in the morning and then shower before relations? I read up on the pamphlet that came in the box and it says to wait five to six hours after application before bathing or entering a pool for maximum results. I'm going to make that my protocol.
God can't help you if you aren't willing to help yourself. I've spent a lifetime in pursuit of happiness and I won't quit until I either reach the promised land or perish first. And it won't be at my own hand. This I vow!
Thank you. We aims to please. The most perplexing aspect of my new psychiatrist's evaluation was his use of a hypersexuality criteria in determining that I was bipolar. This I was until I contracted that virus - whatever the heck it was. Sooo, why am I a eunuch now? And I don't want to hear about mood fluctuations either because I've sort of settled into a trough of depression over the last several years. But the quasi-impotency predates that by about six years. Which is it? Either I'm hypersexual and this is part & parcel of mania, or I'm Mr. Roper from Three's Company and don't give a darn. He couldn't see the sense in my argument {rant?} so I made an appointment to see the endochronoligist without telling this new doctor of my previous emotional instability so as to prejudice his evaluation before he had a chance to reach his own conclusion. That conclusion was that my testosterone level was low. Seems fairly indisbutable.
Now the new psych agrees with the endo's diagnosis {what choice did he have?} and supports the hormonal therapy wholeheartedly. My initial reaction today was irritability, but I was under a lot of stress because of a family matter so we'll see. I have an appointment with Dr. Freud a week from Thursday and I hope to be able to present him with some alternatives to the anti-depressants I've already tried. I can deal with depression but the anxiety literally drives me up a wall. It can be so paralyzing. And it has an inverse relationship to my view on life. You would think I'd be a church mouse. Instead I relish confrontation as a sort of outlet and half wish someone would put me out of my misery. Humor is my only release valve.
Now the new psych agrees with the endo's diagnosis {what choice did he have?} and supports the hormonal therapy wholeheartedly. My initial reaction today was irritability, but I was under a lot of stress because of a family matter so we'll see. I have an appointment with Dr. Freud a week from Thursday and I hope to be able to present him with some alternatives to the anti-depressants I've already tried. I can deal with depression but the anxiety literally drives me up a wall. It can be so paralyzing. And it has an inverse relationship to my view on life. You would think I'd be a church mouse. Instead I relish confrontation as a sort of outlet and half wish someone would put me out of my misery. Humor is my only release valve.
God can't help you if you aren't willing to help yourself. I've spent a lifetime in pursuit of happiness and I won't quit until I either reach the promised land or perish first. And it won't be at my own hand. This I vow!