Holy Methadone !!!

[bharrod]

Okay, first of all let me say that I AM VERY VERY THANKFUL TO ALL OF YOU HERE, FOR ALL OF YOUR WISE AND LIFE-SAVING ADVICE. If not for you all, I "could" potentially be dead right now.

My new doctor, a neurologist, prescribed me to take 1 Methadone pill 3 times per day. I'm assuming that means, one in the morning, one in the afternoon and one at dinner time. Apparently, he is totally clueless about this drug. The half-life is terribly long on this pill (which you all informed me of, but he never bothered to tell me this). This means that up to 15 hours after you take one pill, half of that pill is still in your body. And also, you all told me about the fact that the pill could take up to 2 to 3 hours BEFORE IT EVEN BEGINS TO WORK. The doctor also neglected to tell me this, had you all not told me this, knowing me, I would have just taken another one an hour or so later. Well I didn't listen to him, I listened to you all. And I only took one pill in evening before bed, and I just alltogether skipped the morning and noon doses. I take 5 mg 2 hours before bedtime.

I thank GOD for you all here, it's so sad that you all know more then the doctors that are prescribing this scary drug even know about it. And it pisses me off that whenever I try to mention to any doctor that I have "done research on this or that on the internet" they look at me like I am stupid and tell me I shouldn't listen to everything I read on the internet. Good thing I listen to what I read on the internet, instead of listening to these careless freaking doctors.

Anyway, Here is an article I just read online. Now I am thinking of getting off the methadone, especially since I am a smoker and that probably affects my breathing as well.

Yes the methadone works like a dream for sure, with very little side effects. I love that part. But I must remember that I am a mother of 2 very young children, ages 2 and 5. And I have very little family to care for the should anything happen to me. I have to be extra cautious with my life, because I am their sole caretaker. That matters to me a lot.

What do you all think about this article below, it's from ABC News, click on the link.
Or copy and paste it into your browser.
Love always,
Mia


http://i.abcnews.com/2020/Story?id=2475616&page=1

[Polar Bear]

I would agree with you, I would have thought 3 times a day would be morning/afternoon/dinner. I also ....r e al l y ......... agree that a lot of the time docs don't have a clue about the finer points of medications and need to listen. and listen to those who try to help themselves.

Betty

[Neco]

This can happen with any medication Mia, and with methadone in particular, the media loves to attack it, and a lot of the times the people who takes it.

You had a benzo before didn't you? Those can kill you too.

Also that article is a bit misleading. " 10mg - 15mg" is not just one pill all the time. I take 5mg pills, I'm pretty sure others here do too. If this boy was an opiate niave kid and took that much sure it could possibly have killed him, but these articles also love to leave out other facts.

It's quite possible this kid has undiagnosed sleep apnea or some other condition. He was congested - well that's a pretty broad term. There are many variables I'm sure even most of us wouldn't consider that could have led to his death. But obviously he was having respiratory issues and if a doctor had seen him, he sure as hell wouldn't have prescribed this to him.

So the question becomes, did he have any business taking the methadone? This is why drugs need doctors a lot of the time, to prescribe them. Some people have no business being on them.

You have to remember something Mia, a lot of these deaths are accidental overdoses. Some some of them are first time users, but the majority of the cases in the country are probably stupid kids our drinking and doing other stuff they shouldn't, thinking methadone is some kind of party drug.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one, this kid had sleeping problems and was congested. The drug itself didn't indiscriminantly decide "I'm going to kill this kid". It was a combination of factors.

The other cases don't mention anything about the other people they site, simply that people found them dead and "the pill count was normal". Doesn't say if they had been drinking, or if they have other problems that would have affected their breathing or ability to remove the drug from their blood stream.

It is sad and unfortunate Mia, but methadone is prescribed to thousands of people every day and it doesn't kill them.. What the members of this board take is a drop in the bucket compared to what drug addicts maintain their doses at. I'm talking hundreds of milligrams.

I'm not trying to dminish the people in the Article, but sometimes in life bad things happen.

The question is. Does your prescription make you feel funny in a bad way? Does it affect your breathing so much that you notice? Does it make you unable to function properly in some intoxicated way?

I have taken as much as 20 - 30mg at once.. This is mostly about what your system can handle. I am obviously not an opiate niave person and I have abused many drugs in considerable amounts prior to being put on Methadone.. So I am not afraid I guess..

You are taking what.. 5mg a day? That's not going to kill you dear, and please don't consider ruining your quality of life because a sensasionalist article tried to scare you off a legitimate drug. 15mg a day is nothing.. A drop in the bucket, I think it's a stretch to call your doc clueless. My doctors prescribed 5mg 3x a day as well. To dose at my discretion (all at once or spread out, whichever works best). He did it because the literature we read supported it, and it's just NOT a huge amount. A lot of people take more than that every day for chronic pain.

Tylenol kills more adults and children a year than most other drugs out there, and you can walk into a store and buy it over the counter. Consider that for a moment.

I have been smoking a pack a day Mia, I don't feel any different than with any other meds I've had before. You are taking your meds as directed, and you are taking less than the full prescribed amount. You don't drink, you don't do other drugs. You're doing great.

[Neco]

This is going to sound insensitive but you know what really pisses me off?

All these parents who demonize methadone.. Their kid was stupid enough to go out and party and take a drug they shouldn't have had (as is the case with most overdoses of ANY substance)..

So what do you do?? No you don't say your little angel was wrong and you wish you could have taught them better.. You BLAME THE PILL COMPANY AND GO ON A CRUSADE TO DENY THE REST OF THE WORLD TREATMENT

All because you can't stomach the facts and admit your kid was a dumbass

Sorry... but I get sick of reading comments from people like the ones on the articles site.. America is fast becoming the country of no personal responsibility - it makes me sick

[ctravel12]

Hi Mia I have been thinking about you lately and wondering how you are doing. I cannot give any input on Methadone as I have never taken it. I am so glad that you are very level headed especially when it comes to your children.

I am glad that this group was able to help and that you took their advise. That is so true that not too many drs have the knowledge of rls and that is why we keep on saying educate yourself as much as you can before seeing a dr.

Glad to see you posting again and hope that you are feeling better.

[Aiken]

Mia--

Zach covered a lot of what I'd say (though you'd hardly know it from the ridiculous length of this post). He made a good point about your previous meds, like the multiple xanax per day, being similar in respiratory depression, so if you were okay with them, I'd hope you'd be okay with the methadone. Note that if you're still taking any xanax, be aware that they're both contributing to the effect.

Another good point was asking you how your breathing feels. I'd add specifically that you might want to stay up quite late one night, after taking the methadone at a normal time, and just see how your breathing actually is. I guess you could also just set an alarm and wake up to see how it feels. Sit there, get really relaxed, and think about something else for a while to distract yourself, until you start breathing without thinking about it. When you notice you're breathing without thinking, see how it's felt. You can assume you'd be breathing somewhat more shallowly when asleep.

A few times, I've had enough too much that I could tell I wasn't breathing deeply enough. It was unmistakable. I didn't think I was in the neighborhood of death, but I could tell that I wasn't putting as much effort into drawing breaths as I normally did. Basically, my diaphragm was slacking on the job, putting in maybe 70% effort.

The problem obviously comes when you already have borderline breathing, due to apnea, asthma, illness, etc. If you're already almost stopping breathing many times a night due to, say, apnea, you simply may not try hard enough in your sleep to pop that airway back open, or you may be drugged enough not to wake up sputtering after it's been closed for a while. The results are obvious.

You have a lot of options open to you.

First thing you should do, which you should do regardless because it will keep your meds effective, is to try lesser doses. Get a pill cutter, if you don't already have one. Your pharmacy should be able to sell or give you one. Sounds like you're taking one 5mg pill. Try cutting one in half, then turn one of the halves sideways and cut it in half again, that way you can assemble a 3/4 pill. Try it for a week or so. If it still works, maybe try 1/2 a pill. When you feel the RLS come back, obviously you've found the threshold and you can adjust it back up by little increments until it just works. You may already be taking the right dose, but it's good to find out for sure. I think the ideal dose is one where you can still just barely sort of tell it's That Time of Day, but it's not actually bothersome. Reduce that broken bone to a bruise, so to speak. (By the way, I think it's possible to get liquid methadone if you find it difficult to cut the pill down to the right dose. One drop usually equals 1mg.)

Note also that any time you feel like your breathing is depressed even slightly, you should take less the following night. Our body chemistries are constantly fluctuating, as is the food that our pills mix with in our stomachs. Your monthly cycle might have an effect as well. Even a normal, appropriate dose might affect you more at one time than another, and since a dose of methadone lasts so long, so you should pay attention and compensate when you notice it happening. The way we're affected by doses from the last few days, you should (obviously I cannot guarantee) be able to get a hint that something's changing before it's happened long enough to become dangerous.

Another thing you should do is to get a sleep study. It's good to find out if you have apnea or any other form of challenged breathing, and it'll help you decide how to handle your medication(s).

Almost any medication you take for RLS is going to depress your system somehow, so no matter what you end up taking, these things are all good to do.

By the way, as I told my father for 20 years before I got to watch him die slowly, coughing non-stop 24 hours a day as he wasted away from 200 to 75 pounds as the cancer in his lungs spread to his other organs and his brain, stop smoking. Forgive me if I'm harsh, but it scarred me, and to this day, I can't hear a loved one cough without getting really upset inside. If you're concerned about your kids' future, this should be as important as anything else. I know you've already given up a lot of other vices for their sake and, believe me, I really really commend you for it, but you've still got this one left to go. And yeah, I know it's a hard one, by some accounts as hard as quitting heroin, but it's still possible. Get help with it if you need it. I won't nag you about it, but I hope you take this advice to heart.

One more thing, and forgive me again if this is too obvious, but I like to cover all of the bases: With kids around, make sure you've got these pills locked away somehow, in a box or cabinet with a real lock. Kids are clever and childproof bottles aren't as childproof as we'd like to think. I'd say two pills would definitely kill most kids. A locked container has the added benefit that if you're befuddled somehow and try to take additional pills, you're less likely to be able to do it.

Oh, and tell your doctor as strenuously as you can about your experience. I know they hate it when we say we have anecdotal info that contradicts what they think, or info from the web (god, do they hate that), but you might save someone's life if you can get him to listen. As you can tell, some of the deaths in that article could have been avoided by doctor education. My own doctor gave me a prescription for 1-4 pills a day, knowing me well and knowing that I'd taper it up appropriately, but I still made sure to let him know that I might very well have died if I had tried taking the max dose the first time, and he appreciated the feedback, for obvious reasons.

Good luck.

[SquirmingSusan]

Hi Mia, I'm so glad you posted this. Yes, methadone kills people, and yes, we have to be very careful with that drug, as with all drugs. I do think that a lot of doctors really need some educating as to just how powerful a drug it is. I remember being very indignant when my pain doctor started me out on one 5mg. pill a day, in a split dose. It wasn't near enough for the level of pain I was in, and I had been taking hydrocodone, so I wasn't "opiate naiive." In retrospect, I'm glad, because I am very sensitive to medications in general, and 15mg a day quite possibly could have killed me. I still don't take that much.

I know we're not doctors here, but one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard about medications - all medications - is to take the lowest possible dose that controls the symptoms. That way you're not likely to have problems with the meds.

Really Mia, if you stick to the lowest dose that works for you, and you don't notice that it's affecting you badly, the odds of you having problems with methadone are miniscule. Now smoking is a whole other ball game, as others have mentioned. You WILL have problems with that. That's proven; it's a given. My mom smoked and that's why I have asthma. Do I blame her or hold a grudge about it? No, back then no one knew. But now we know. Yes, it can be difficult to quit but there's lots of help out there for that nowadays.

The media loves it when there are tragic deaths and they can blame it on something like pain pills. People read that stuff! I was in to my own pain doctor a couple weeks ago and I asked him about some of the scary information being spread around about methadone. Specifically I asked about the sudden cardiac death. He reassured me that it's not anything to worry about; that I'm healthy and nothing showed on my pre-surgery EKG in December.

But there will always be people who are ultra-sensitive to medications, or have abnormal reactions. People will die from it occasionally. More people die driving to the grocery store.

Just be careful with it, Mia. Don't keep the bottle next to your bed so you could accidentally take an extra one when you're sleepy. Don't take an extra because you think you need it. Don't take more than you need to control the symptoms.

You'll be fine. Take care of yourself and your general health. Get fresh air and exercise, quit smoking, etc. Eat right, get enough sleep. Quit worrying so much. Enjoy those kids.

[Aiken]

Oh yeah, Susan's post just reminded me of some excellent advice my wife gave me, and it's so simple I'm surprised most of us never think of it.

Get one of those SMTWTFS pill caddy things. Allocate your pills a week ahead of time, and then there will never be any question of whether or not you took your pill, because it'll either be there to take, or it won't. You never take a pill directly from the bottle.

I think you can even get some that have four containers per day, so if you take something at different times, you can track it easier.

[SquirmingSusan]

I have one of those and it's great. It has a separate pill box for each day, each with 4 compartments. And it has a timer that attaches to each box. I load it up once a week, attach the monday pill box to the timer on Monday, etc. and the alarm goes off when I have it set to take my pills.

[bharrod]

Great Advice, I got one of those SMTWTFS containters, and it's working great, thanks for the tip, it makes it so easy to remember everything.
Mia

Oh yeah, Susan's post just reminded me of some excellent advice my wife gave me, and it's so simple I'm surprised most of us never think of it.

Get one of those SMTWTFS pill caddy things. Allocate your pills a week ahead of time, and then there will never be any question of whether or not you took your pill, because it'll either be there to take, or it won't. You never take a pill directly from the bottle.

I think you can even get some that have four containers per day, so if you take something at different times, you can track it easier.

[irishlad]

Regarding opioids. I discovered that Darvocet and Vicodin eventually had to be used in large doseages. This tends to lead to high doseages of acetomenophin. Large doseages of acetomenophin and cause liver problems. The methadone sounds like a harsh treatment that takes too long to effect the RLS or PLMS affects. In my situation 20 mgs of oxycodone, morning and evening, is very effective and it's "timed released". I've been doing this treatment for 5 years and have had no "rebound" as many talk about: but everyone is different, I suppose. I have suggested in other posts that you try to videotape your condition and show it to your doctor. Many and I mean many doctors have never seen a person suffering from RLS. When my doctor saw my video it was an "eye-opener" for him. Those of us who have leg, torso and arm movements should benefit from oxycodone at 20mgs twice a day. But there's a BIG BUT ! If you start abusing it your doctor won't trust you and it's over. Good luck at that point. If you don't have insurance it will probably cost you $210 for 60 pills. Please use discipline and restraint when going the opioid route. In so doing the treatment can be very effective: 24/7 relief, period.

[ViewsAskew]

Regarding opioids. I discovered that Darvocet and Vicodin eventually had to be used in large doseages. This tends to lead to high doseages of acetomenophin. Large doseages of acetomenophin and cause liver problems. The methadone sounds like a harsh treatment that takes too long to effect the RLS or PLMS affects.

In my opinion, taking any opioid has to be carefully considered. Using the milder ones, as you noted, carries a different risk: the liver risk. So, this makes the stronger ones "better" in that regard.

Some people like oxy, some methadone. I'm not sure what you meant by harsher - I certainly am not a doctor or pharmacist, so could be missing something.

For me, it's preferable to take the methadone as I have no 'high' and I don't like an opioid high. Also, it works in about a 1/2 hour, so it certainly doesn't take too long. And, many of us can take it once a day, though I think that also applies to a slow release oxy, right?

Neither of them - or any opioid particularly - is all that helpful for PLMs. Some people get some help....but most of us do not. If a person has PLMs, it's great if they can take the DAs, or even a bit of a DA with the opioid.

[Neco]

Agreed.. Methadone hits me in about 40 - 60 minutes. Full effects usually about another hour later, but certainly enough to notice that I am getting increased relief.

As far as Oxycodone goes.. I have no experience with time released Oxycontin, so I don't know how that would be for a person.. I can't imagine it would be too long before relief set in either, as the drug is pretty strong in its own right.

As for price, well you must be getting some kind of brand name pills or shopping at a real ripoff pharmacy. I get #90 methadone for about $13. Certainly never paid more than $15 except for the one night I went to a 24 hour walgreens I did pay $20.

Likewise I've never paid a ton for Oxycodone either. Certainly not more than $50 at the maximum, for around 100 or more I believe.

[Aiken]

Also, it works in about a 1/2 hour, so it certainly doesn't take too long.

...really?

It typically takes 2.5 to 3 hours to work on me. I don't think it's *ever* worked faster than 1.5 hours.

Also, unlike Zach, I get most of it at that mark, rather than earlier on. I only get a very small amount while I wait, and even that takes over an hour to show up.

Weird...

[irishlad]

I was only adding my 2 cents regarding an early post by a young lady that mentioned methadone was taking a long time to relief her RLS symptoms. I mentioned oxycontin/oxycodone (generic version) since it's a time-release and helps me. The young lady mentioned she didn't have insurance. Any drug store in my area charges $210 for 20mgs at a count of 60 if you don't use insurance and pay "private-pay". Thanks for your input though.